Illegal immigration is more than a legal problem. In fact thje crime rate amongst the illegal immigrants is higher than the national average. I personally feel that giving amnesty is only a surrender to illegality.

Ome more point. How about organized "contract labour". Bring tham accross the border make them finish the job and ship them right back. In contract labour market is opened up then the problem of illegal immigration can be stemmed.

Most of these people won't want citizenship anyway. Then they'd have to pay taxes, etc. The fallacy here is that people think these workers WANT to be legit. Of course they don't.

first of all, a great many illegal workers have taxes deducted from their wages, with the exception being day laborers. whether those monies collected by their employers are actually transferred to the government is another story entirely. those who are working for honest employers but using bogus id aren't likely to file tax returns so unlike most citizens, they actually 'contribute' 100% of their withholdings. same for state income taxes. they--like any renters--pay their actual share of property taxes plus. as in plus whatever percentage their landlord builds into the rent.

whether or not they want to become citizens has very little to do with taxes. if some could earn even a modest living in their home countries, they'd never leave home. if there was nothing to keep them from easily traversing the border in both directions, i suspect we'd see a flashflood of weekend crossborder commuting on a scale that would make the old highway 21 phenomenon a mere trickle by comparison.

I find that hard to believe, kingbee. Do you have any stats to that effect? Not doubting you, just looking for reference material. I figure if they file with bogus IDs they probably declare 12 dependants and get next-to-nothing taken out at all. I wonder what percentage of illegals actally pull a real check, and not work totally off the books.

We had route 23 here, and I understand where you are coming from, but mexico has an unemployment rate of 3.2 percent, and an underemployment rate of 25%+. The middle class jobs don't seem to exist. A reality, sure, but what are we going to do about it? Eastern Kentucky still lags behind the rest of Appalachia, and when someone wants to move industry in they just abuse them until they change their minds.

Mexico must think this is a great thing, because if these people went home their unemployment rate would skyrocket. As long as people are allowed to wander off as you point out, the problems can just fester with a bareable amount of pain. When they don't leave, people starve and then those in power have to right the wrongs responsible. They're just exporting their responsibility.

Do you have any stats to that effect?

i've worked with a number of businesses employing from 10-15 to 100+ workers. all privately owned manufacturing or distributing concerns.  at least 25% of all the production or warehouse workers are illegal with fake ids, some of whom i've come to know by several different names.  all contract to have their payroll processing done by companies such as adp so all workers are  definitely having money withheld.  it may be different elsewhere in the country; the first of these three repors most closely reminds me of what i've seen, discovered or been informed.  link or link and link

The middle class jobs don't seem to exist. A reality, sure, but what are we going to do about it? Eastern Kentucky still lags behind the rest of Appalachia, and when someone wants to move industry in they just abuse them until they change their minds.

before gas prices began going up last summer,  a number of auto makers were planning to upgrade existing production plants or  building much larger new ones. according to what i was reading, mexico was poised to become the new detroit.  mexico was also becoming the largest new car market in the hemisphere. i havent seen or heard much about it tho since just after katrina hit.

the frontera's maquiadores have barely benefited anyone but their parent corporations (in the form of less expensive components--a savings never passed along to consumers).   

nafta and subsidized magna-agri (it's nothing short of shameful archer midland daniels et al are still collecting money for nothing and price protection for free) have been kicking mexico's ass for a while now.  last summer, prices for produce dropped to the point where mexican farmers didn't lose as much by letting their crops rot in the fields as they did taking them to market. 

As long as people are allowed to wander off as you point out, the problems can just fester with a bareable amount of pain. When they don't leave, people starve and then those in power have to right the wrongs responsible. They're just exporting their responsibility

mexico and the central american countries were not-so-subtle slave economies until fairly recently   far too often, the elites of each of these nations were encouraged and supported by american businesses which were protected by the american military whenever things got outta hand.  the wealthy and powerful there are playing both ends against the middle cuz it's worked so well for so long.  

Increasing wages for the low skilled workers or what the Japanese call, three D workers, (those working in dirty, dangerous, and demeaning jobs) would create, what Michael Piore calls, structural inflation. This means when the wages are increased for the low skilled workers, it will have a cascading impact resulting in increase in wages across the job spectrum. This is not going to be liked by a business man as it would entail increase in wage cost and therefore cut into the profits. One solution, Singapore has found to moderate the flow of foreign workers is introduction of a levy system where the employer has to pay levy to the Government for each foreign worker hired, the level of levy being fixed based on the demand situation. If the demand is high, then the levy is lowered and when demand slackens, the levy is raised. This will moderate the flow and also protect the wages of the local workers.

One solution, Singapore has found to moderate the flow of foreign workers is introduction of a levy system where the employer has to pay levy to the Government for each foreign worker hired, the level of levy being fixed based on the demand situation. If the demand is high, then the levy is lowered and when demand slackens, the levy is raised. This will moderate the flow and also protect the wages of the local workers.

While this is apartial solution, yet it leaves the fate of the 11 million illegal immigrants already is the USA undecided. Bush and the Bushmen want to opt for a half way solution: legsalise those already in the USA and strengthen border patrol to prevent more such crossings.