"Both Island Dog and Baker seem to forget that there are rule of civilised combat and killing civilians is not done."

There has never been a war that I am aware of where civilians weren't killed. Civilians may not be purposely TARGETED. The question here is whether the Marines killed these people a) because they thought they were insurgents and the kids, etc., were also in the way, because they panicked and fired wildly at anything that moved, or c) got angry because of the attack and targeted civilians as a reprisal.

You can't discount any of the options until we know for sure what the situation is, and the report hasn't been released yet. For Murtha to pre-judge it as "cold blooded murder" is outside his authority and a heinous enough act of opportunistic propaganda that I believe he could face at the very least political censure for it. It's obvious that he doesn't care that his words can be hijacked by terrorists and that his message has become eerily similar to that of the people we are fighting.

I think the only thing that matters to the dems (most of them, at any rate), are getting the "amens" from their left-wing, anti-war supporters. It doesn't matter to Murtha or any other left-wing nut what they say, as long as their "side" accepts it. And, we all know that the left loves to do the trashing, no matter what fact may or may not be known. "Cold blooded murder"....he should be ashamed of himself. Especially with the talk of his time in service....

It really does make me sick to my stomach that in one breath, the dems are all about troop support, and then in the very next, they spout garbage like this....

got angry because of the attack and targeted civilians as a reprisal.

If this last option is true then it does make it cold blooded killing. A disciplined Fighting Force does not indulge in gratutious killing. The aftermath of the killing in Haditha is important. The Marines who took part were told to keep their mouths shut. The Pentagon was informed only that there has been a crossfire and in that the civilians were killed. The Death Certificates of the v
civilians which showed bullet wound to the left temple (excecution style) was sought to be suppressed and the whole incident made to look like a terrorist act. This Haditha incident is no different from many such incidents, including the take over of Fallujah.

If this last option is true then it does make it cold blooded killing. A disciplined Fighting Force does not indulge in gratuitous killing. The aftermath of the killing in Haditha is important. The Marines who took part were told to keep their mouths shut. The Pentagon was informed only that there has been a crossfire and in that the civilians were killed. The Death Certificates of the v civilians which showed bullet wound to the left temple (execution style) was sought to be suppressed and the whole incident made to look like a terrorist act. This Haditha incident is no different from many such incidents, including the take over of Fallujah.

You are no better than the rest of the ghouls. Why don't you wait and see what the report says "before", you form your opinion. Besides the fact that part of it is an OUTRIGHT lie! Right now the only evidence they have is Times video of a bunch of dead bodies and that's ALL it shows. And reports from "survivors". Seems kind of odd to me. If you're going to commit atrocities like that "why" leave survivors?

You are no better than the rest of the ghouls. Why don't you wait and see what the report says "before", you form your opinion. Besides the fact that part of it is an OUTRIGHT lie! Right now the only evidence they have is Times video of a bunch of dead bodies and that's ALL it shows. And reports from "survivors". Seems kind of odd to me. If you're going to commit atrocities like that "why" leave survivors

There have been media reports from the USA about the Haditha Inqiry. The Incident of Nov 19,2005 is not a LIE> It is a fact. The Marine Unit that participated in the Incident haS provided testimony and let us see how the Pentagon views the whole sordid affair. War Crimes are part of 20th century history and in Iraq there is a lot that the Occupation Forces have to answer.

Apart from the video there is also the statement of 3 survivors whose testimony is consistent with what is known anbout the Incident.

There have been media reports from the USA about the Haditha Inqiry. The Incident of Nov 19,2005 is not a LIE> It is a fact. The Marine Unit that participated in the Incident haS provided testimony and let us see how the Pentagon views the whole sordid affair. War Crimes are part of 20th century history and in Iraq there is a lot that the Occupation Forces have to answer. Apart from the video there is also the statement of 3 survivors whose testimony is consistent with what is known anbout the Incident.

The LIE is about the marines who were told to keep quiet. That's BS!!! Got any proof? I also noted how you completly skipped over what I wrote! Why don't you try and answer the question?

And reports from "survivors". Seems kind of odd to me. If you're going to commit atrocities like that, then "why" leave survivors?

IF the last option is true, Bahu, you're right. Until there has been an adequate, independant look at what happened, we don't know if that is true. Until we do, accusations of "cold blooded murder" by exploitive politicians are at best irresponsible, ignorant supposition, and at worst, frankly, treasonous anti-US propaganda.

OK,
First, unless someone questions or there is contradictory information when a report from the field is filed, the commanders HAVE to take the report at face value. When the Lance Corporal reported the incident that differed from the initial report, a JAG (Judge Advocate General) investigation would have been launched. You do not ever want to be in the sights of a JAG investigation conducted by the Marine Corps. EVERYONE interviewed by the investigation is under oath and can be (and will be) charged if they don't tell the entire truth. Until the investigation is concluded, no one, especially the investigators are allowed to give any of the findings out under penalty of law. The only person that they may report finding to prior to the conclusion of the investigation is the Commanding Officer that ordered the investigation. A JAG investigation is conducted under the rules of the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice) which is much more restrictive than civilian law, and the punishments are generally much more severe. For ANYONE to release information concerning the investigation even a member of Congress before the final report is released is a CRIME. The Marine Corps has never a service to participate in or condone cover-ups, if anything the Marine Corps will hold violators of our Code of Conduct to the blinding light of day, to help ensure that whatever the offence it is not repeated. The Officers who have been relieved so far, even if they are vindicated of any involvement will most likely end their careers and leave the service, the same can be said of the Enlisted Marines. Anyone found to be culpable in this incident WILL face a General Court Martial, and IF convicted will be sentenced to Leavenworth Prison, and if found guilty of Murder WILL be sentenced to Death. ONCE AGAIN THE MARINE CORPS DOES NOT DO COVERUPS, the Marine Corps puts it's Dirty Laundry on display.

Unless you UNDERSTAND how something works, do not speak of it, read something first!!!! If you would like to know more about the UCMJ go here http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/ucmj.htm

Murtha KNOWS all of this, you DO NOT become a ranking officer in the Marine Corps without a full understanding of how a Military JAG investigation works.

So please for the sake of all of us who do understand what is going on, wait for the official report.

I will say this, if the report is 100% accurate, you will find that those who will levy the harshest criticisms and condemnation will be the members of the Marine Corps. Unless you have served with us, you can not possibly understand what an incident like this means, and I will not even attempt to explain it to you.

Having spent 20+ years in the Marine Corps, I can understand what is happening..... what is YOUR qualification?

Just because someone say's something that you WANT to hear does not make it the TRUTH or RIGHT.

Christopher Conley
USMC/GySgt (Ret)

Bold? Not really, at least, in my opinion. He sounds like any other nay sayer, anti-war activist, etc...

~L

Link

The USA has now instituted a Program called Core Warrir Values Program. This is a response to Haditha.Now there is no doubt that the 19th Nov 2005 EVENT did take place. Why it took place and what happehed to whom and when will be determined. Any the link is self explanatory.

ONCE AGAIN THE MARINE CORPS DOES NOT DO COVERUPS, the Marine Corps puts it's Dirty Laundry on display.

This is the whole point of the Hditha Incident. Why did the Pentagon according to Gen Pace receive info about the incident only in Feb 2006. In any case even the White House admits that there is more to this than meets the eye.

Lets remember Murtha's biggest CRIME is he has convicted these men with no trial, and his blathering on about this incident is being shown all over the Arab world, carefully cut and edited in order to condemn not just the entire corps but the American people. Murtha should be ashamed of his self.

This is just too off the wall. You have a House of Representives member who has expose what is in every respect a horrible atrocity, and then you say that Murtha should be made to step down. By the way the Arab Media is not giving the Murtha story any play, and they are sticking to the line that Haditha is just one of several such incidens.