This is an original: not even the most rabid Istraeli fundamentalist has ever sais so badly that the Arabs have tried to do a Holocaust. I think this in not an argument just feverish thinking.

As far as historical record go the first time the jews were slaughtered in the Holy Land was by frankisn conquerors in the eleventh century. Right through the Ottoman occupation of Palestine there was no attempt at killing or expelling the jews or christians form Palestine. The first large scale ehnic cleansing happened in 1948.

I said the arabs are bearing the cross not jews so thats that.

Did you even read the quote from the "Palestinian" leader I gave you above?

So what does it mean when the Arabs try to "throw the Jews into the sea"? Or when PLO leaders before the six-day war announce that they don't believe that there will be any survivors after the attack? Or when "Palestinian" television announces that Jews are pigs and apes that must be killed?

If this is "original" to you, then perhaps you ought to do more research before you try to solve a conflict you don't understand.

The "grand mufti" of Jerusalem, Arafat's uncle and mentor, was not in Bosnia to recruit Muslims for the SS because the weather in the region is so excellent.



That "ethnic cleansing" was, presumably, when Arab leaders told the Arabs in Palestine to leave and Jews begged them to stay and defend the country?

You are a liar, Bahu.

Blame the Jews, if you like, but don't pretend that you can contribute anything to a peace plan.

You might be surprised to learn that even most Palestinian Arabs, inside and outside Israel, do not have as anti-Semitic views as you do, at least not when they have met Jews or Israelis.



Yes, you implied that the Jews are a cross to bear. That's what offended me.

But Arab nationalists (like German nationalists) think the same thought. That's what al-Husayni meant when he said the famous words (that you, for some reason, never address):

"Arabs, rise as one man and fight for your sacred rights. Kill the Jews wherever you find them. This pleases God, history, and religion. This saves your honor. God is with you."

That was in 1944, so don't tell me that "ethnic cleansing" (or rather "begging them to stay") caused al-Husayni and his ilk to conspire with the Nazis.

Bahu, I dare you to write another article using al-Husayni's statement ("Kill the Jews whereever you find them.") as the title. If you don't think that the "Palestinian" leader calling for a Holocaust in 1944 in Berlin constitutes a "Palestinian" attempt to kill Jews, especially when a few years later there follows a full-scale Arab attack on the Jews, there is no reason not to quote him on that!

"Our fundamental condition for cooperating with Germany was a free hand to eradicate every last Jew from Palestine and the Arab world. I asked Hitler for an explicit undertaking to allow us to solve the Jewish problem in a manner befitting our national and racial aspirations and according to the scientific methods innovated by Germany in the handling of its Jews. The answer I got was: 'The Jews are yours'."

-- Muhammad al-Husayni, Yasser Arafat's uncle and mentor in his memoirs


"The Holocaust was in Europe, but the Palestinian Arab's attempt to do the same in "Palestine" happened in the middle east, as did Arab persecution of Jews and other minorities in Arab countries"

-- me


"not even the most rabid Israeli fundamentalist has ever said so badly that the Arabs have tried to do a Holocaust."

-- Bahu Virupaksha, after reading the above two quotes, referring to the second one


Bahu, when are you going to join our reality; or will you just continue to judge us?

No, but Amadenijad has. As well as Saddam (He is arab, right????), Assad, and many, many more. Try listening to what the leaders (albeit tyrants and despots) of the Arabs say, and not what the anti-semites say they say.

Dr Guy,

I am somewhat at a loss as to what exactly Arab leaders could do to refute Bahu.

Here was the leader of Palestinian Arabs in 1944, in Berlin, talking to Hitler about eradicating the Jews in the middle east. What more can they do?

It's not like we can ask them to shout it whenever they can (although they do).

What exactly, apart from TELLING the world, conspiring with HITLER in BERLIN, ATTACKING the Jews, and confirming it again and again, can the Arabs do to convince Bahu that they tried to exterminate the Jews in Palestine and the middle east???

Here's a picture of the "Palestinian" leader with Hitler:

http://www.jimena.org/faq/images/mufti_husseini_hitler.jpg

And here are three pictures of al-Husayni with his SS unit in Bosnia:

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/media_ph.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10007255&MediaId=6099

And this is what Yasser Arafat had to say about al-Husayni in 2002:

"We are not Afghanistan. We are the mighty people. Were they able to replace our hero Hajj Amin al-Husseini?... There were a number of attempts to get rid of Hajj Amin, whom they considered an ally of the Nazis. But even so, he lived in Cairo, and participated in the 1948 war, and I was one of his troops."

http://hnn.us/roundup/archives/11/2007/9/

Incidentally, the Jordanian King Abdullah exiled al-Husayni from Jerusalem following the war and replaced him with a saner scholar, who was unfortunately assassinated four years later. I assume that King Abdullah didn't agree that only rabid Israeli fundamentalists thought that al-Husayni was evil.


Perhaps Bahu ought to dress up as a Jew and walk through an Arab town somewhere in Egypt and test his theory that Arabs do not want to kill Jews.

If he does, I will voluntarily walk through Tel Aviv wearing an Arab nationalist t-shirt to give them a chance to ethnically cleanse me or whatever it is Jews do when they see an Arab.

There are two different sequences at work in what Leuki writes: First, there have been irresponsible statments from Arab leaders and the President of Iran's statement needs to be condemned. Having said that we must remember that all the rhetoric from the Arabs have been reactive. They are reacting to the loss of land, history and memory and there is now a possiblity of a solution in thje form of a Israeli-Palestinian state.

There is an academic journal called Genocide and Holocaust studies and is a serious research journal on the subject. It has addressed the issue of Arab-Israeli violence, but that violence is not to be confused as being of genocidal purpose. I feel that such charge as the moral equvalence between the Israeli-Palestenian conflict and the German sponsored Genocide that Leuki is advocating is a kind of revisionism and the unique nature of the Holocaust is undermined if such comparisons are made for rhetorical purposes.

Now if you ask me about Arafar or the PLO or for that matter the HAMAS I will say that I do not agree with their methods of targetting civillians and their strategy will only be counter-productive.

What about the irresponsible attempts to make those statements into reality?

Arabs are always reactive, they don't have free will. Or so I hear from their supporters.

What loss of land was al-Husayni reacting to again when he called for the extermination of all Jews in the middle east in 1944?

Actually, the revisionism is your denial of Arab attempts to exterminate Jews.

Arab leaders called for the extermination of the Jews, and given that they also attacked Israel regularly, I happen to believe them.

Why is that revisionism?

_I_ don't care if the person calling for my death is German or Arab. Why do you?

"Our fundamental condition for cooperating with Germany was a free hand to eradicate every last Jew from Palestine and the Arab world. I asked Hitler for an explicit undertaking to allow us to solve the Jewish problem in a manner befitting our national and racial aspirations and according to the scientific methods innovated by Germany in the handling of its Jews. The answer I got was: 'The Jews are yours'."

-- Muhammed al-Husayni (not a German but revered today still in "Palestine")

Dr Guy, I bet you five dollars (to be handed over if/when we ever meet) that Bahu will never ever address al-Husayni's statement!

I do understand how this works. Even a picture of the "Palestinian" leader with Hitler in 1944 won't convince him that the Arabs were anything but "reacting" to the fact that Jews are a cross to bear.

That's the view I tried to satirise here:

http://www.netneurotic.net/Extrablatt/

Excuse me? Iran has ever given a diddly damn about Palestine? Har Har Har! Wrong. They are not Arab, they have done nothing for the Palestinians, they have not reacted to anything. Except to express hatred for Jews. This has to be the lamest excuse I have ever seen for the insanity and criminal behavior of the mad mullahs and Amadenijad!

The lame excuse that "they are fellow muslims" are belied by the fact that "fellow muslims" are committing genocide, because some genuflect from the left and the others genuflect from the right.

So what have we learned?

1. When an Arab leader calls for the extermination of the Jews in 1944 it is purely a reaction to Jews stealing land.

2. Jews are a cross to bear.

3. A German SS commander is evil, an Arab SS commander is not.

Anything else?

Islam sits uneasily in a world divided into nation states. Yje possibility of an Arab state was undermined after the defeat of the Ottomans in World War I, especially after OIL was discovered. The West, for its own purposes, advanced the claims of camel keepers like the House of SAAUD and backed despotic kingdoms and emirates in the Arab world. The Arabs did not have leaders who could speak for them and in that confusion in 1948 Israel was established. I have stated several times in my previous posts that the Palestenians were betrayed by their fellow arabs.

That is a problem which has nothing to do with the problems caused by SECULAR groups like the PLO and SECULAR leaders like Nasser and Saddam Hussein.




Emir Faisal dreamt of an Arab Empire living in peace next to a Zionist state. But secular Arab nationalists (and Syrian nationalists) undermined his efforts.




The Saud issue is true, but the Hashemites were just as backed by Europeans as the Saudis. However, because of problems in Europe and America, especially since the 30s, neither side had much backing from anybody.




The Arabs had lots of leaders: Nasser, al-Husayni, Aflaq, the list goes on and on. Those leaders were very vocal.

The problem was that the Arabs listed to those leaders.




Well, they should have listened to the Jews then, shouldn't they have?

It worked out well enough for them though. The very real betrayal you speak of is now called "ethnic cleansing" and it's the Jews' fault, obviously; and the "refugees" got more money from the UN than any other group in the world, while the Jewish refugees from Arab countries, who outnumber the "Palestinian" "refugees" got NOTHING.

There animosity and hatred transcends nation states and borders. It matters not how they were, would be, or will be divided.

It should be noted that "Islam" doesn't "sit uneasily" or do anything. Islam is people.

What they do is up to them.

Islam may guide them, but if its guidance makes them uneasy, perhaps they need to look forguidance elsewhere.

Nation states are the real problem. There was a large meause of intra communam and inter communal harmony in the days before the rise of Arab states in the region. Now that spirit of friendship and harmony has evaporated leaving hatred and bitterness behind. Now the real challenge is to find peace and I feel that a single state solution may be a step forward. The Quartet is still debating and probably will not advocate a solution because as long as there is Arab-Israeli conflict the West has political and military influence in the region.