1. Putting their "Hamas soldiers" (read: cowardly posers) in the line of fire would just interfere with posing for pics.

2. Their "Jihad" consists of blowing themselves and innocent Israeli civilians to pieces in supermarkets and groceries, setting off rockets (with timing devices to let them run away before launching) aimed at Israeli cities (not Bases), launching rockets from other people's back yards under threat of murder, and earning their livelihood by doing these deeds, storing their munitions in schools (good education for the future) and hospitals (hard to need one when you run away).

Public relations: here they excel at making themselves "victims". Why aren't their people citizens in Arab lands? Why are they forced to live in squalor there? Why don't they protest that?

Simple: Those govenments support them with money and weapons and "fighters".

Just ask yourself:

When was the last time an Israeli strapped on a bomb and wandered into Gaza?

Why did the Israelis (the all powerful Israelis) leave their greenhouses and factories in perfect condition when they voluntarily and unilaterally left Gaza? Why aren't they productive anymore?

Why haven't the Israelis used their Army to crush them before this?

Obviously: The Israelis are the monsters.

Count me among the monsters.

DrJBHL, all valid points. But none of that will convince those that know how "evil" Israel is, the swastika "kill all the Jews" crowd marching the streets of Europe and Arab countries.

 

I am so tired of morons making excuses for terror organizations like Hamas and Hezbollah I could scream, Israels policies are to fight with a semblance of"honor" while Hamas and Hezbollah use the press to garner sympathy, they do things like drag dead bodies from one spot to another so it appears the body count if higher than it really is, or drag dead bodies to hospitals to "prove" Israel is targeting said hospitals.

Yes, but how do you prove these things to people who assume that when in doubt the terrorists are good peaceful people and the Jews are evil?

 

You can't, Leauki. All you can do is have good people like those at AIPAC (and others) tell the truth.

Those who are in doubt about things should listen to both sides and make up their minds.

Those who hate Israel/Jews will never listen to reason not deal with facts.

What can I say?

*UPDATE*

Just read this on YNET and it's really excellent...not my writing though I wish it were:

Answering Israel’s critics



Six clichés you are likely to hear constantly in the coming days, and why they’re false

Yigal Walt Published: 12.30.08, 19:13 / Israel Opinion


1) “Israel’s response in Gaza is disproportionate”


 
Since when is war a mathematical equation? The basic objective of any warring party is to inflict maximal damage on the enemy while minimizing its own casualties. Was there anything proportional about the US war in Iraq? Or about Iraq’s invasion of Kuwait for that matter? Or about Russia’s recent war against Georgia? Israel is doing exactly what any other country has done in the past. This is how war works.


 
Would a British citizen complain that “too few” British soldiers are being killed in Iraq? Probably not.


 
And on a more elementary note: Palestinian military inferiority is not an indication of moral superiority. Palestinian insistence on resorting to violence despite this military weakness is an indication of poor judgment perhaps – yet it is by no means an indication of moral virtue. Being militarily weak does not make the Palestinians right.


 
2) “But Qassams don’t kill”


 
Actually, Qassams do kill. Not too often, perhaps, but dozens of Israelis were killed and wounded by rocket fire in recent years. Moreover, at this time the Palestinians are firing long-range Grad rockets with even greater explosive power. Such rockets killed 2 Israelis Monday.


 
Yet beyond the casualty figures, the psychological damage caused as result of living under an ongoing rocket threat is immeasurable. Would anyone in the West agree to have their family live under constant rocket attacks and be regularly woken up by sirens in the middle of the night? Would anyone living under such conditions appreciate being told that “these rockets don’t kill?” Probably not.


 
3) “It’s all because of Israel’s siege. Israel should allow aid into Gaza.”


 
Israel has allowed goods into Gaza regularly throughout the “siege”. Palestinians have been able to complement these deliveries with supplies smuggled through hundreds of tunnels (of course, they would likely be able to bring in even more food had they not used the tunnels to smuggle in missiles.).


 
The day before operation “Cast Lead” got underway, Israel allowed dozens of trucks carrying aid to enter the Strip. On Tuesday, another 100 trucks – double the normal number –are expected to enter Gaza after Defense Minister Barak approved the move.


In short, Israel is allowing aid into the Strip (but guess who has kept Gaza crossings mostly closed thus far? That’s right, Egypt.)

 
4) “Why didn’t Israel just agree to renew the Gaza truce?”


 
First, what truce? Terror groups continued to fire rockets throughout the lull, even if somewhat infrequently, and even if the world didn’t seem to care too much. Nonetheless, Israel clearly declared that it is interested in extending the truce. Our top officials made it clear time and again.


 
Yet Hamas leaders clearly declared that the truce has ended on December 19th, and proceeded to bombard southern Israeli communities with dozens of rockets daily. In short, it is no wonder that even the Egyptians are blaming Hamas this time.


 
5) “But Hamas was elected democratically – why can’t Israel accept it?”


 
Although Hamas won the Palestinian elections, it took Gaza by force, in the process hurling rival Fatah members down to their death from high-rises and shooting others in the knees with the declared aim of maiming them. Some democracy.


 
In any case, Israel in fact “recognizes,” de facto, Hamas’ rule in Gaza, which is precisely why it is justified in attacking the Hamas-ruled Strip, recognizing that it is indeed being governed by a terror entity. Israel did not launch the operation because Hamas is in power there – rather, it did so because Hamas is a terrorist organization that has deliberately targeted civilians with thousands of rockets over the past 8 years.


 
6) “Israel is targeting civilians”


 
You mean to say that “one of the most powerful armies in the world” has been bombing Gaza for days, deploying massive air power, dropping hundreds of bombs, and ultimately killing a grand total of 50 civilians or so in the “most crowded place on earth?”


   



 
There are two options here: A) The Israeli army is not targeting civilians, or Israeli pilots suck. We tend to go with option A.


 
Indeed, Israel goes to great lengths to avoid civilian casualties, by deploying precise ammunition and specialized techniques. In fact, nobody in the world does this better than the Jewish State.

I'm a Jew and by and large a supporter of the State of Israel, but allow me to express some reservations and differences of opinion with those stated here. Of course, that is only natural for our people. "Two Jews, three opinions" as always.

A little over 4 months ago, John McCain said "in the 21st century, nations don't invade other nations." Of course, he was speaking about South Ossetia, a nation with a proud history dating back almost two years. But that was an invasion by Russia and was a BAD invasion. This, of course, is a GOOD invasion and the world should if not actively support it at least not interfere.

What makes it a GOOD invasion? It is virtually guaranteed to help the Labor Party and the Kadima coalition in the upcoming elections. In a poll released just before the invasion, Labor was expected to lose 7 of their 18 Knesset seats, while Netanyahu's Likud party was expected to gain  17 seats. Barak has shown that he is not "soft" on Hamas now, hasn't he?

The Kadima or "peace" party has suffered a lack of confidence since Olmert had to step down because of that corruption stuff. The invasion is expected to help in the polls. It's not like the timing is suspect, is it?

What exactly does Israel hope to gain from the attacks? An end to Hamas? Not going to happen, any more than Israel was able to destroy Hezbollah by invading Lebanon. Let me peer into the future and tell you that what will happen is that there will be a loss of life, some key Hamas leaders may be killed, eventually a six month or one year cease-fire will be signed that will, of course, be violated, resulting in an Israeli response....repeat as needed.

For those of you with check lists, you can put a mark in the box that says "Make new martyrs."

Let me go on record as saying that nothing of lasting good will come of this. Gaza is densely populated, correct, by people living in abject poverty with no future. Is it any wonder that they hate Israel? Yes, I know that they hated Israel before, but in more than 14 years since the Olso Accords there has been zero progress toward a lasting peace. There is blame enough to go around.

Fool that I am, I once thought after the deaths of Arafat and Sharon, the passing of the Old Guard so to speak, peace might be possible. I guess that I am an optimist. "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss."

As for ONLY 50 civilian casualties being an acceptable level, you do realize that some of the dead you are talking about were children? Obviously, someone is reading a different Talmud than the one that I read, that teaches that all life is sacred. "Whoever destroys a soul, it is considered as if he destroyed an entire world. And whoever saves a life, it is considered as if he saved an entire world."

 

If no lasting good comes of Israel's attack on Hamas, then it is Hamas' fault.  Israel isn't doing anything that any other country wouldn't do in their stead.  It isn't a matter of whether or not the attack will be effective, it is a matter of whether or not it is justified, and it is.

Well Larry, our opinions aren't the ones that will determine much.

It's easy to take the view that "nothing of lasting good will come of this" and I agree. I took the view that after 1967 massive 'aid' efforts towards health and education should have been undertaken there. Needless to say, that wasn't relly popular.

We're downstream now. Israel cannot be a target for these 'people'. No good will come of that either.

"Is it any wonder that they hate Israel?" No, but the reason isn't poverty. You know as well as I that they hate Jews and Israelis. Their poverty makes it easy for Hamas to exploit them (the Egyptians and PLO did the same) and it's being done all over the Arab world. The Muslim angle is being used as well.

 As for it being a move to benefit one party or another? I don't think you'd voice that opinion if you lived in Sderot and your children grew up in fear for eight years (and in truth, longer).

The outcome may be as you predict. It might be different also. You aren't party to Israel's plan and neither am I.

The truth is that violence causes violence. I do know that if Hamas is not controlled and continues it's violence, Israel will have no choice but to respond.

No other country would do any different....like it or not.

What happened to the good old days when Israel would use targeted assassinations against these Hamas goons? I remember when they nailed that Yassin dude. All that was left of him was his corroded sandals and a smelly shawl. Ishmal Hyena is hiding out in a bunker and letting other folks do his dying for him.

Sorry this might be out of line BUT! far as this Jew is concerned, kill them all, the long, the short and the tall, kill every one of them, let Allah sort them out.

"As for it being a move to benefit one party or another? I don't think you'd voice that opinion if you lived in Sderot and your children grew up in fear for eight years (and in truth, longer)."

I disagree, if anything I think I would be more angry if my son or daughter were being used as pawns in a game of politics.

Moderateman, old friend, it is your very reasoning above that answers your question about how Stalin can be regarded as Russia's hero. After all, most of the people that he killed were ethnic minorities, German POWs, you know: non-people. No one cared about them either.

I seriously doubt that this is being done for a political reason i.e. for one party to succeed over another in an election.

It may have been timed for the last month of Bush's Presidency due to anxiety related to fears of Obama's possible responses, but it has been a long time coming. It wasn't the Israelis who violated the "cease fire" it was Hamas.

When someone shells your house or comes looking to kill you. do you ask your neighbor if he's a Democrat or Republican before defending yourself?

I think you'd act swiftly to remove the threat.

I would also like to think you'd act to terminate the threat of someone attacking your children before hitting the 'pause button' to check in with PETA and ask if it's ok to defend your family.

As I said, I doubt you'll be convinced until you live in the situation. I would think you find it (intellectually) uncomfortably easy, and lacking in any real consequence to expound an 'evolved', tolerant viewpoint without having walked a few miles in the other guy's shoes. You've never faced armed conflict yourself (I believe) nor stood in actual, imminent danger of harm from an armed aggressor bent on your demise and I hope you never do.

I say that not to attack you, but to make you cognizant of your bias in living where the rockets don't fall.

Sorry, but I have friends and family that I worry about. They come first, and while that may be hard to defend for you, it isn't for me. I've worn the uniform and fought there. Never in Gaza, but in several other locations. I stand with my brothers and sisters, friends and colleagues against those who would kill us.

What annoys me most, is that in the days leading up to the bombing by Israel, there was no public out cry for Hamas to stop sending rockets over into Israel, yet when Israel retaliaties there is uproar.

I often sympathise for the people in Palestine, but at the moment i think both sides are responsible for this and the actions of both need to be brought into question by the international community. 

Hizbullah had shelled Israel for five years before the "start" of the "2006" Lebanon war. The public outcry came when the first non-Jewish victim appeared. (To be fair, nobody cried foul when Israeli Arabs are hit either.)

There was no outcry for Hamas to stop sending rockets into Israel for years.

When Israel left Gaza and the borders were open, Hamas took power in Gaza and started attacking Israel (and the PLO).




Do you really sympatise for the people in Palestine, or just the Arab people in Palestine?

And how is Israel responsible for this? Why should we question the actions of Israel when Israel is shooting back? It's easy enough to find out why Israel responded and how to prevent that from happening again. The big question is how do we stop the "kill all the Jews" crowd.