The Pity of War Distilled

Recent exposures about the Fall of Bagdad

Published on December 8, 2004 By Bahu Virupaksha In Politics

More than 2500 years back, Thucydides, an Athenian who faught against Sparta, wrote that Athens which created an Empire in order to wage the war will eventually become a tyrant at home,putting an end to Athenian Liberty and Democracy. The words of this great historian should illumine the minds of all those who write about the Anglo American attack on Iraq as if nothing terrible is happening there. Need I remind that Timothy McVeigh was a decorated veteran of the First Gulf War. The experience of war degrades both the perpettrator and the victim. Evan Wright, an embedded jouranlist with the Marines in his latest book , with the unlikely title, Generation Kill: Devil Dogs,Iceman,Captain America aand the New Face of American War has shown in great detail the horrors of this war. Anyone advocating the continuance of this unspeakable horror must read this book, because it is based on the real life experiences of the journalist with the US Marines on the road to Bagdad.

This book does not cover the war from the Iraqi point of view: in fact it looks at the war entirely from the American and specifically from the Marines point of view.No other perspective is possible in Iraq. "Embedded" jouranlists are entirely dependent on the military for their transport, food and security. The journalists on the War Trail do not have the time nor the inclination to look at the victims of the war. From the armoured cars aall such journalists see are the faces of Iraqis cowering in fear and anxiety, trying to protect their children from sharpnels and bullets. The human side of this war is as tragic as Worl War II, but unfortunately the Western Media only has time for official beiefings in the Green Zone and no time for those suffering from the uncosquences of this war.

Comments

hitparade

on Dec 08, 2004

You wrote: "This book does not cover the war from the Iraqi point of view…"

Why don't you share with us your understanding of the "typical Iraqi" view of the war? (to tell us that no one wants to be killed, etc. is telling us nothing we don't already know).

Is it that all of the Iraqi people would prefer a return to Bathist rule? Is that allthe Iraqi people desire a state ruled by religious zealots?

Share with us your understanding of the view of the typical insurgent fighting say in Fallujah? Does he view himself a freedom fighter? Or is he a religious zealot? Or something else?

If an American pull-out of Iraq occurred now, what would follow? What would fill the power vacuum? What would the view of the Iraqi people be then? Is a Kurd, Shia alliance likely going to form? (a plausible solution, which would resulting America watching from the bleachers) What do you think would happen then? What would Al-jazeer be reporting then?

BTW, you do know that not all Sunni's in Iraq are insurgents (the Kurds, e.g.)? Do you know that many a blood-feud exist even among Sunni Arabs in Iraq?

Finally, Howard Dean's mid-life crisis, his voice of 'dissent' that far too many leftist in this Country followed(shamelessly trying to relive the glory days of protesting the war in Vietnam), empowered the insurgency. What they could not win militarily, he has given them a shot to prevail politically.

Natrually, I don't expect any sort of direct response from you, but I do look forward to the next article. Try offering a little more insight, though, as we Americans already know our view of things.

drmiler

on Dec 08, 2004

The Pity of War Distilled

By: Bahu Virupaksha
Posted: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 on Discussion on History and Politics
Message Board: Politics
More than 2500 years back, Thucydides, an Athenian who faught against Sparta, wrote that Athens which created an Empire in order to wage the war will eventually become a tyrant at home,putting an end to Athenian Liberty and Democracy. The words of this great historian should illumine the minds of all those who write about the Anglo American attack on Iraq as if nothing terrible is happening there. Need I remind that Timothy McVeigh was a decorated veteran of the First Gulf War. The experience of war degrades both the perpettrator and the victim

What a pile of BS. Need I remind *you*, that McVeigh was an aberation NOT the norm.

Bahu Virupaksha

on Dec 08, 2004

The question is the legality of the Iraq War. The war was waged without UN sanction, on the false pretext of Weapons of Mass Destruction, on the basis of "sexed up" intelligence reports, by unleashing a barrage of invective agasinst the regime in Iraq. Just because Saddam was a demented criminal ruling Iraq,does not justify a war. More people have been killed since the Anglo American Invasion in Iraq than were probably killed during the Baathistregime. The argument that if one oppses the war then one in ipsofacto a Saddamist is not tenable, because the war is being viewed by a different yardstick.

My only concern is to highlight the death and destruction that is now taking place in Iraq and if you realise what is happening there I do not think you will ever support that war. As for Timothy McVeigh I too hope he is only an "abberation" not the norm. What will happen in the USA when men and women who have been instrumental in industiralizing death return home is anybody's guess.

Bahu Virupaksha

on Dec 08, 2004

drmiler

on Dec 09, 2004

Reply #3 By: Bahu Virupaksha - 12/8/2004 11:56:16 PM
My only concern is to highlight the death and destruction that is now taking place in Iraq and if you realise what is happening there I do not think you will ever support that war. As for Timothy McVeigh I too hope he is only an "abberation" not the norm. What will happen in the USA when men and women who have been instrumental in industiralizing death return home is anybody's guess

If this was going to be a problem I think we would have seen more of it by now. I would tend to think that if you asked vets from both sides that Vietnam was every bit as mind twisting as you claim Iraq is!

Reply #4 By: Bahu Virupaksha - 12/8/2004 11:56:21 PM
The question is the legality of the Iraq War. The war was waged without UN sanction, on the false pretext of Weapons of Mass Destruction, on the basis of "sexed up" intelligence reports

And just where did you come up with this? Since there were a lot *more* agencies than US intel saying the *same* thing!

hitparade

on Dec 09, 2004

Bahu wrote, "The question is the legality of the Iraq War. The war was waged without UN sanction,"

So, Bau, were the war 'legal' (U.N. sanctioned), all the killing, maiming & destruction that war admittedly & horribly is, would be then mitigated under a Bahu/U.N. good seal of approval, and yet those children would be no less dead, or maimed. No? C'mon Bahu, educate us, don't patronize us.

As for Bush ... Bahu you’re educated & bright & undoubteldy aware of the King-warrior, Ajurna, and his lesson of role & necessity, as life is real & far from a dream that we are permitted to wake up from when the going gets rough.

Every day Pres. Bush shoulders the weight of 911-- every day. At the javits center, he met with many of the families of those who were horribly (unspeakably) murdered that day, and he made them a promise that the warior-king, Ajurna himself could only understand. Bush is far from a criminal, but that is just my opinion, of course.

As to the authority of the UN to legalize war in Iraq… in my estimation that is simply a joke. The UN is not a lofty body of Jeffersonian-democrats with honorable intentions, etc. The UN takes up way too valuable of NYC real estate, and, God willing this criminal organization soon will be kicked out of the U.S., though I will miss the assortment of colorful, pretty flags, esp. on windy days.

drmiler

on Dec 09, 2004

Reply #6 By: hitparade - 12/9/2004 9:41:24 AM
As to the authority of the UN to legalize war in Iraq… in my estimation that is simply a joke. The UN is not a lofty body of Jeffersonian-democrats with honorable intentions, etc. The UN takes up way too valuable of NYC real estate, and, God willing this criminal organization soon will be kicked out of the U.S., though I will miss the assortment of colorful, pretty flags, esp. on windy days

I agree! The UN should have been kicked out long ago. I for one am sick to death of America having to shoulder the lion's share of the UN's bill! (around 20% or better)

Bahu Virupaksha

on Dec 14, 2004

So, Bau, were the war 'legal' (U.N. sanctioned), all the killing, maiming & destruction that war admittedly & horribly is, would be then mitigated under a Bahu/U.N. good seal of approval, and yet those children would be no less dead, or maimed. No? C'mon Bahu, educate us, don't patronize us.

My point is that the war is brutal and needless; more so because it is being waged against better judement and the USA stands alone. Not only that civillians are being targetted in amanner that has not happened even in World War II. Now who is accountable for all the death and destruction. In Nuremberg the German political leadership eas held responsible for two categories of high crimes: Crimes against peace and Crimes against humanity. Both these crimes have and are taking place in Iraq today and the sooner one realises this the better it would be for the world.

drmiler

on Dec 14, 2004

Reply #8 By: Bahu Virupaksha - 12/14/2004 1:17:41 AM
So, Bau, were the war 'legal' (U.N. sanctioned), all the killing, maiming & destruction that war admittedly & horribly is, would be then mitigated under a Bahu/U.N. good seal of approval, and yet those children would be no less dead, or maimed. No? C'mon Bahu, educate us, don't patronize us.

My point is that the war is brutal and needless; more so because it is being waged against better judement and the USA stands alone. Not only that civillians are being targetted in amanner that has not happened even in World War II

We do NOT stand alone foolish one. And US soldiers do NOT target civilians. No matter what you say.

Bahu Virupaksha

on Dec 14, 2004

We do NOT stand alone foolish one. And US soldiers do NOT target civilians. No matter what you say.

Bonus Rating: Trolling Insightful

USA is fast losing the few allies it hustled up in the runup to the war. Spain has left the so called colalition of the willing Poland has pulled out. Ukraine might do the same. And iinfact if there is a way of exiting Iraq without losing face even USA will scram fro Iraq. The fact is the no matter how rude you get,the USA is comitting war crimes in Iraq and all over the world the opinion is fast changing. In the capture of Fallujah even "embedded journalists" ack. around 10,000 dead. Arabs place the toll at 15,000. Is it necessary to kill that many people.

hitparade

on Dec 14, 2004

Under Saddam's brutal & lawless regime, 1million plus human beings were murdered. In as much as you presume to speak for the Iraqi people, could you tell us how many Iraqis actually desired to live under a brutal regime such as Saddam's? The only ones I could imagine desiring a return of the old guard would naturally be the relatively few thugs who benefited from his gangster regime -- the old guard of the system. The millions now free from Saddam's tyranny are not interested with "un legalities." They are free. Whether they end up squandering this extraordinary opportunity given to them by 1200 pus Americans who mad e the ultimate sacrifice is more of a reflection on that society than it on America.

As for America's allies... where they going to turn? China (lovely bunch; just ask the Tibetans). In less than 50 years from now, it is conceivable that France & Europe will be under Chinese control (even occupied). The Chinese have a frightening plan to achieve this end. Would France Have the stomach to use Nukes to stop China? The Chinese plan, for a variety of reasons, contemplates being able to survive a nuclear attack. In fact, underground cites are being built as we speak which his why the Russians are frantically retooling their nuke systems. I wish the French luck and will pass word down to my grandchildren to never assist the France. Good luck to them.

BTW, during the allied occupation of germany, the orders on the ground were very simple & effective. If a german was armed, the order was to shoot him on the spot -- no questions asked.

mismos

on Dec 14, 2004

Did you personaly witness just how many of them were carring guns? If not, then find something else to talk about.

So only US military personal can speak about the war? Then why are any of us here?
It's funny how you can accuse people of ignorance and then go on to make such silly comments.
- At least you're not completely ignorant as you accept that you ARE rude. ( I have been reading a lot of your posts)

We are all giving OPINIONS here, and even if you don't like them you can't dismiss them so easily with such brief statements that are completely meaningless. People can taken precious time to share their views. Simply because you capitilized the word NOT is not a reason against the opposing view! And if to speak of the dead in Iraq we must have witnessed their death then... well this is completely ridiculous!

drmiler

on Dec 14, 2004

The fact is the no matter how rude you get,the USA is comitting war crimes in Iraq and all over the world the opinion is fast changing. In the capture of Fallujah even "embedded journalists" ack. around 10,000 dead. Arabs place the toll at 15,000. Is it necessary to kill that many people.

We may get rude , but I'd rather be rude than ignorant. We are NOT commiting war crimes. And of those dead that you speak of. Did you personaly witness just how many of them were carring guns? If not, then find something else to talk about.

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