They are people. Trust me about this, they aren't. They want to win, and you do not win a revolution with half-hearted slogans. Except for the most extremists elements (which aren't really under the control of any central authority, thanks to Israel), the militants tried to respect the cease-fire until Israel struct.

Proof that hope is possible

I don't believe the Israeli hates Palestinians. They are afraid for their securities, and that is understandable. But their government seems to try to put down any palestinian movement aimed at defence of their people. I can understand the Israeli's concern for security. I do not understand Israeli's governement obsession with absolutely wanting to have all Palestinian to bow down in deferrence to them.

On the other hand, I can understand the resentment of the Palestinians toward the Israeli. Have you ever been a member of a minority? A mistreated minority, either now, or in the past. Specially when the governement - and army - is controlled by the majority, and they used it against your people - rightly or wrongly, it doesn't matter -. It just carves resentment on the long run.

Guess about a thousand worse. They have to deal with overpopulation, no supplies of any sort, and at least ten times more missiles going over their head. With bombs thrown at them that don't just merely punch a hole trough a wall: the bombs Israel play with can level a whole building.

Am I supposed to feel insulted? Tell me, YES or NO: are the palestinian territories under military-enforced occupation?

Tell me, YES or NO: When a territory is under military rule by a foreign nation, is the population allowed to fight back?

If they aren't allowed to fight back, then please sue Poland, France, Denmark for their actions against Germany in WW2. Please demonize your country's origin right away. Please ask your governement to withdraw support to Kosovo.

Plenty I love history.

I m a "pagan"  I am not allowed to be alive in most muslim countries.

Used to play DnD with one as a teenager.  Asked him why he didn t mind the pagan theme, he told me cause he didn't practice his religon strictly and even agreed with me I should not visit muslim nations without keeping my religon secret.

Dunno what planet you're on, Cikomyr: The Israeli's UNILATERALLY left Gaza! HELLO!

As for the rest of your BS...please join your friends in Gaza...I'm sure you'll get a really warm welcome.

I lived in Israel for 13 years...went to medical school there and served as a line officer and medical officer in the IDF and I am here to tell you that you don't know jack about Israel, or the Hamas terrorists you spout off about.

Go live with them....PLEASE!

People do have a right to resist and states have a right to defend themsel;ves and their citizens. If HAMAs CAN FIRE ROCKETS, 6000 OF Then over the last one year alone then Israel has a responsibility to defend itself and that is exactly what it is doing. Now if that can provide political dividents to the Labor, Likud or Kadima parties it it for the citizens of Israel to decide.

I to once believe that oppressed people have a right to violent resistance. Now having seen the fact that terrorists always target inncoenct  chil;dren and women and civilians I have come to realise that in the long run it is better to be free of terrorism and if the price is excessive so be it.

Now a point of histrorical interest. It is sometime said the HAMAS was once encourage by Israel in order to undercut the PLO and now has become a threat.

Compared to the kind of destruction now going on in Gaza, and I can tell with certainity that HAMAS will survive this invesion, it would be better if Israel goes back to its traditional policy of targetting terrorists all over the world and taking them out. International Law in no way prevents this.

It depends what you call "defence".

Firing rockets at kindergardens is defence against _what_ precisely?

The Arabs felt "oppressed" whereever they had to live with Jews.

They "defended" themselves not only in Israel but also in all the Arab countries today's Israelis came from.

At some point we will have to face the truth that a people of 300 million doesn't need to "defend" itself against a people of 4 million to survive.

Since no liberal would answer my question about where they were when Hamas fired rockets at Israel, I'll rephrase my question. If you don't care about Jewish lives, maybe you can answer this question about Arab lives:

Where were you when Hamas killed hundreds during their revolt against the Palestinian Authority?

Those were non-Bedouin Arab victims, just the sort you always cry about. Where were you when Fatah members were thrown off high-rise buildings and their families tortured and slaughtered by Hamas? Where were you when Hamas murdered Egyptian border police? Where were you when Hamas killed Gaza's Christians?

When the Arabs attacked Iran and caused two million deaths, I didn't speak up. I couldn't blame the Jews.

When the Arabs murdered tens of thousands of Kurds, I didn't speak up. I couldn't blame the Jews.

When the Arabs murdered hundreds of thousands of Massalith in Darfur, I didn't speak up. I couldn't blame the Jews.

When Hamas murdered several hundred Fatah militants and civilians in Gaza, I didn't speak up. But I blamed the Jews.

When Israel attacked Gaza, I spoke up. It was safe. Hundreds of thousands of others already marched under the swastika.

(Niemoeller reloaded.)

I am happy to see that so many people are for the defence of Iseral . Hamas needs to be taken down once and for all. It is sad that so many civilians are dead, but what can you do? Its not like the IDF Air pilots cant aim, its becuase Hamas is using the city of Gaza as a shield. If they were true soliders, they would go out at fight. But since they know they would lose, Hamas fight like cowards. What do you expect from people that tell their children to become sucide bombers?

Also, if your intrestead, The IDF has set up a youtube channel so you can see what they are doing in Gaza.

Interesting you bring this up- considering this was a war in which Iraq was championed by the West and Saddam was seen as one of our guys throughout the whole thing. So much so that we (the West) provided him with chemical and biological weapons, satellite photography and intelligence. We even turned a blind eye to the attrocities he committed against his own people during the 80's, largely using weapons provided by us, because he was at that time considered a "good guy" since he was fighting the evildoers in Iran.

Then after that disastrous war, since Iraq was pretty much bankrupted and massively indebted to countries like Kuwait, who were now calling in their debts and would have put Iraq in pretty much the same situation as Weimar Germany circa the late 1920's, Saddam figured "I invaded Iran and they were okay with it, why not a little country like Kuwait??" And all the ethnic cleansing he carried out domestically? He figured since none of the big boys said a peep during his war with Iran no one would care now anyway.

He even arranged for a face to face with U.S diplomats to make sure that we would be okay with him invading Kuwait (in much the same fashion as Israel needs to get a green light from the U.S before partaking of any major military action, as we see evident now with President Bush's consolation gift to Israel as he couldn't greenlight the carpet bombing of Iran they were just itching to carry out) Saddam genuinely believed the response the U.S diplomats gave him was a green light to go ahead and invade Kuwait. When he told them what he was planning, they never told him not to do it but instead gave a rather aloof answer that they were committed to maintaining good ties with Iraq and were committed to peace in the region. Saddam figured "there'll be plenty of peace in the region after I take Kuwait!" and then hung himself with the rope he was handed.

The truth is, as is so often found in so many instances, there are no "good guys" and "bad guys", but only pawns who dance to the tune of a puppet master. Once Saddam had outlived his usefulness to the U.S, and had failed in their desired objectives at that, it was time for him to go.

What we see unfolding in Gaza now is more of the same... another calculated move to obtain a political goal (to replace Hamas with Fatah is the goal this time) disguised in the cloak of over-simplified "good guys battling the evil terrorists" mantra. The reality is that a lot of innocent people are getting caught in the cross fire, much of it is senseless and pointless, and yet in order for it to happen ALL of the civillian casualties must be blamed on the evildoers and be justified as such.

But at the end of the day, the families of those murdered will remember that it was Israeli bombs that killed their loved ones, not Hamas (who they elected into power) using them as human shields.

But this can never be part of the discussion. In order for these campaigns to be waged, the discussion must always be the myth of pure good (who can do no wrong) battling pure evil. Very rarely does this ever actually happen. Once you strip away the jingoism and myth of the "good fight", you come to the reality of countless lives shattered over a political goal, in this case much of it documented here-

http://gazaeng.blogspot.com/

Before I respond to this, let's make it very clear that I'm not defending Hamas in any way. With that said, you're making the whole affair sound very one sided. What actually happened is that after the election...which Hamas won...the outcome was unacceptable to Fatah (and Israel), so a power struggle ensued. There were deaths and murders on both sides, much the same as happens in a gang war. Fatah got caught with their pants down and took a licking, Hamas turned out to be far stronger and carried more popular support than Fatah originally thought.

Now, we are witnessing the campaign to restore Fatah to power, which is also consequently inflicting punishment on the people of Gaza for siding with Hamas...considering that about half of all the casualties inflicted since the IDF put boots on the ground in Gaza are civillians....

The world would have been a better place if Saddam had been Jewish. There would have been a world-wide outcry after he killed the first few hundred Kurdish terrorists.

You don't have to. Trying to stop Israel from defending herself and blaming her for the deaths caused by a war started by Hamas is all the support Hamas need from you.

I promise you that I absolutely feel at least twice as much regret for the Arab victims of the war as the Arabs feel for the Jewish victims of the war.

Note that I do not blame all Arabs in Gaza for the war, far from it. I realise there are innocent peaceful people living there.

I only blame the 85% who voted for Hamas and wanted war with Israel.

I assume you have already concluded that Israel _cannot_ be a good guy?

Did you ever see the series "Centenial"?  A great work by Michener that traces the history of the US through the settlement of Colorado.  The series (based very closely on the book) was done very well (it runs over 26 hours).  IN it is one villian (there are others, but for this discussion, he is the culprit) - Skimmerhorn.  He broke a peace treaty with an Indian tribe and massacred the tribe that consisted of mostly WOmen and Children (the Braves were elsewhere).  When a Sergeant asked what to do with a couple of children he caught, skimmerhorn replied "nits grow into lice".

If their goal is the extermination of the Jews, then their actions are to erradicate any where they are found.  And their "defense" in this regard is to prevent them from growing into adults.

Note:  I totally abhor the actions and do not condone them, I was just offering a possible explanation to what I know is a rhetorical question on Leauki's part.