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Published on December 29, 2005 By Bahu Virupaksha In Current Events
On December 13, 2005 a few minutes past mid night a well built, healthy man walked the last few hundred feet between his cell on Death Row at San Quentin and the excecution chamber. That Tookie Williams was a ruthless killer no one denies. That he had a violent youth in which a dissipated life careened out of control uder the influence of poverty and drugs too no one denies. He along with Raymond set up a violent street gang, Cripps, this too is a fact. And he killed four people in typical gang land style. Having said all this can we say that he deserved a chance to straighten out his lfe.

I do not buy the theory of procecutorial misconduct during the course of the trial. That he was responsible for killing four young men is certain.

After his trial, Tookie Williams had embarked upon the worthy course of warning Black youth of the dangers of gang warfare and drugs by writing a series of books. He also wrote his autobiography which explains the social context in which he grew up. A fatherless childhood and two children from two different women by the time he was 18, and an irresponsible attitude towards his children, made him seek the refuge in a gang. The gang is probably the one social group that provided a degree of self worth and then the drift into crime.

It is not quite right to disscount the race factor in the debade on the Death Penalty. Tookie Williams was probed fro nearly 1 hour with hypodermic syringes before the vein to let the lethal mixture was found. This is ceratainly a cruel and unusual way of killing an individual, Further it took Mr Tookie Williams nearly 10 minutes to die. Some agony.

The federal jusdes had reccomended clemency for Tookie Williams on the ground that he had behaved in an exemplary manner in the last half of his life. He died at the age of 52 for a crime committed at the age of 24. Obviously he was a completely different man to the callow youth who had done the horrible deeds.Can this factor not be the ground for mercy?

Comments (Page 1)
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on Dec 29, 2005
All death sentences are "Cruel and Unusual" when you define putting someone to death as cruel. And it's unusual to die of anything other than natural causes, by that same logic. Are you saying that Timothy McVeigh also did not deserve death? As has been pointed out on previous articles (which I unfortunately can't find right now), Tookie and Timmy are of cut of the same cloth: domestic terrorists. Tookie started his terror cells in LA and they quickly spread to every major city in America; McVeigh started his terror cell in a motel room in Kingman, AZ, on his way to the Ryder truck rental store.
on Dec 29, 2005
I have responded to the debate on Tookie Williams, but once again it was a waste of time. After reading all of the negetive and racial comments I have come to the conclusion that ignorance is why the world is what it is today.
on Dec 29, 2005
What does race have to do with it? Are you saying that Tookie should not have been executed for murdering four people because he was black or something?

I don't get it.
on Dec 29, 2005

It is not quite right to disscount the race factor in the debade on the Death Penalty. Tookie Williams was probed fro nearly 1 hour with hypodermic syringes before the vein to let the lethal mixture was found. This is ceratainly a cruel and unusual way of killing an individual, Further it took Mr Tookie Williams nearly 10 minutes to die. Some agony.


I think that is a cruel and unusual way of arguing.

Your argument does not relate to your thesis. And what does "to let the lethal mixture was found" mean?
on Dec 29, 2005
Funny how a person who muders one or many is a really bad person and deserves the death penalty, but since the death penalty takes time to be done, during that time the condemmed can be a nice person and all of a sudden we should feel bad for them and let them live. That's just plain sick.
on Dec 29, 2005
during that time the condemned can be a nice person and all of a sudden we should feel bad for them and let them live.


It does not negate the crime or overturn the verdict. Makes you wonder why he/she didn't set his/her life in order before going on the murderous rampage that sent him/her to death row.

At any rate, this doesn't even apply to Tookie. He was not a model prisoner by any stretch of the imagination.
San Francisco KRON-TV News article

Officials at San Quentin State Prison are disputing comments from supporters of condemned killer Stanley "Tookie" Williams that the Nobel Peace Prize nominee has been a "model prisoner."

San Quentin spokesman Vernell Crittendon offers faint praise of Williams' recent record behind bars.

"I think, the last 10 years, he has not attacked any persons on Death Row, and has not been in violation of, any serious rule violation," Crittendon said. During the previous 15 years behind bars, Williams record was more checkered. "Well, he's been involved in incidents that involved sexual abuse, battery, assault on staff, threatening staff, fighting, just to list a few of the incidents that he's been involved in."


on Dec 29, 2005
Obviously he was a completely different man to the callow youth who had done the horrible deeds.Can this factor not be the ground for mercy?


Tookie might have been different, but a great many others weren't. They were all still dead. If Tookie's change of heart could be considered as ground for clemency, his victims forced inability ever to change again, in any way, ought to be (and was) the ground on which his lawful execution was carried out.

State sanctioned lawful execution isn't about deterrence (how can it be just, supposing deterrence worked, to make one man pay with his life to teach others not to murder?) - it's about punishment.

He killed citizens without the sanction of the State, therefore the State ought (as in the moral imperative) to kill him.

Firstly, the prerogative of saying who shall live and who shall die belongs to the State and the State alone. By killing, Tookie committed the crime of lese majeste and on that ground alone he ought to have been executed.

Secondly, he killed citizens, preventing the State from benefiting from the contribution of those citizens. Since natural (let alone State) justice dictates that in order to be just punishment should match the severity of the crime, and since (in our culture at least) there is no higher value than that of life, the only appropriate punishment for murder is the extinguishing of the life of the murderer.

And since, in order to be just, this execution must be carried by an agency devoid of personal ill-will towards the killer, the only appropriate agent of execution is the State.

On every ground of law and political reason, Tookie Williams (and all those in the same position as he) should suffer State execution.
on Dec 29, 2005
Tookie Williams was an unrepentent pox on society almost from the moment he left the womb.
I don't care what your life was like before you commit a crime; right is right and wrong is wrong. We all know the difference.
Nothing changes that, so I don't feel sorry for those people who had it rough growing up, and try to use that as their excuse for their poor behavior. "Pity me, I'm black and fatherless. I had no chance for a decent life." That's bullshit and everyone knows it. Everyone with common sense, that is.
Robbery is wrong. Murder is wrong. Committing cold-blooded (especially race-biased, as he did) murder in the act of a robbery is VERY wrong. Tookie Williams got what he deserved.

More than can be said for his victims.
on Dec 29, 2005
And I certainly feel no pity for the man because they had trouble finding a vein in his arm (claiming it took an hour is a gross exaggeration, btw, it was more like 6 or 7 minutes according to the witnesses) and had to poke around a bit.
---LW

I'd venture a guess that this had something to do with the fact that he'd spent the last quarter-century tremendously bulking up on weights provided on the taxpayer's dime.
You know what I mean; weights put there so the prisoners can be ten times stronger and in ten times better shape than the guards who watch them.
on Dec 29, 2005
Yes.

Cheers,
Daiwa
on Dec 29, 2005
After reading all of the negetive and racial comments I have come to the conclusion that ignorance is why the world is what it is today.


After reading all the crap you've spouted I have come to the conclusion that the world is the way it is because of people like you - those who see racism where there is none, those who think that it's okay to let murderers and rapists run free because they said they were sorry, those who think that all a person has to do is attach their name to a couple of badly written books to atone for their sins. People like you - children, in other words. Children who are ignorant to the ways of the world and the depths that human beings will sink to in order to get what they want, when they want.

My hope for humanity rests in the knowledge that you will one day grow the fuck up and see just who wrong you were.
on Dec 29, 2005
After reading all the crap you've spouted I have come to the conclusion that the world is the way it is because of people like you - those who see racism where there is none, those who think that it's okay to let murderers and rapists run free because they said they were sorry, those who think that all a person has to do is attach their name to a couple of badly written books to atone for their sins. People like you - children, in other words. Children who are ignorant to the ways of the world and the depths that human beings will sink to in order to get what they want, when they want.

My hope for humanity rests in the knowledge that you will one day grow the fuck up and see just who wrong you were.
---dharma

Man! I couldn't find a place to highlight just one or two points here! I had to "quote" the whole damn thing!

(Insert "triple snap" here) You go girl!

on Dec 29, 2005
dont know how many times you have to be told this, Bahu, TOOKIE DID NOT WRITE ANY BOOKS. They were ghostwritten by a WOMAN who paid him a portion of the profits to use his NAME.


OK But he did warn the youth not to follow him into crime and he did not profit from crimes that he paid for with his life. All I am saying is that when we debate Capital Punishment we have to take the social environment of the pertetrator of crime.

The Timothy Mcveigh excecution is of a different order of magnitude and he was a mass murderer who killed for a diabolical political reason and cannot be equated with Tookie.
on Dec 29, 2005
What does race have to do with it? Are you saying that Tookie should not have been executed for murdering four people because he was black or something?


Then answer the question: Why are the majority of the inmates on DEATH ROW in American prisons predominantly black and statistically speaking well beyond the propotion of their percentage in the US population.
on Dec 29, 2005
Firstly, the prerogative of saying who shall live and who shall die belongs to the State and the State alone. By killing, Tookie committed the crime of lese majeste and on that ground alone he ought to have been executed


Man you are way off the track. The state has no right over the lives of the citizens, and that too a seemingly democratic one. Only the Monarchs of the middle ages claimed the right over the lives of their citizens on the ground that they were subjects of the King and homicide was punished by death because the act itself was seen as treason in the eyes of the Monarch. After the 18th century the attitudes began to change.
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