This blog explores the contemporary political and cultural trends from a distinct perspective
WHAT THE WEST CAN DO
Published on February 6, 2006 By Bahu Virupaksha In Politics
A few weeks back a Danish newspaper published a picture of Prophet Momammad, peace be on his name. The cartoon showed the Prophet wearing a bomb in his turban. The Moslem world was just aghast at this irreverential portrayal of the Prophet. Since then the fires have been raging in Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Pakistan and Afghanistan. The Western embedded media says that it is a clash between Freedom of Expression and an increasingly intolerant Islam. This view is wrong because there are laws in all Western countries against Blasphemy and Racism. No one can claim the right to publish a cartton dishonoring Jesus Christ and claim that freedom of rxpression protects him/her. Therefore the principle of Freedom of the Press or ERxpression is not involved. The Wesrern Media is claiming unto itself the Right to dishonor Islam in the name of Democratic Freedoms. As Oliverm Wendell Holmes once said. you cannot shout fire in a crowded theatre and then claim that the act and its consequenes are covered by the First Ammendment. The present case is similar.

There is a strong feeling in the Islamic world that the West is trying to undermine Islam as a religion and civilization by constantly depicing it as a fundamenmtalist, aggressive, lawless force. The anger that is spilling on to the streets is a spontaneous expression of the frustrations that people feel when their sacred symbols are cynically violated.

Comments (Page 3)
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on Feb 06, 2006
It’s interesting how so many of the right-wingers here at JU are speaking out against the Muslim culture of violence and hatred when 97% of the Iraqis we “liberated” from the tyranny of Saddam Hussein are Muslims, many with the same tendency towards hatred and violence.
---BenU

Well, from what I keep hearing, it's not so much the Iraqi people we're fighting anymore.
Oh sure, maybe a few here and there, but it's mainly the Islamo-fascist whacko insurgents, now. Those from surrounding countries who don't want democracy to actually take root. The Iraqis are supposedly as pissed off about them as we are.
If they're given the chance to enjoy that democracy, the openness and personal freedom that comes with it (which they've never enjoyed, EVER) and to really reap its benefits, then maybe they won't be so hateful anymore. They'll be able to think and react for themselves, rather than how a dictator, religious or otherwise, tells them to.
Is that possiblity, no matter how remote you might think it is, really such a bad thing?
on Feb 06, 2006
What is taking place in the Moslem world over these cartoons should make it clear how fundamental the differences there are between our culture and the Moslem world. I do not approve of the cartoons but they are no excuse for what is taking place. I think back how WWI was triggered by the death of one person in the midst of an explosive environment. WE may be looking at another conflict that is triggered by such an event. I think it is pure fantasy to believe we will achieve peace in the Moslem world by just spreading democracy. I see very little hope for that looking the reaction to a few cartoons. We had better look to how we would deal with a massive Moslem uprising world wide. Look at what took place in France a few months ago. Remember Nostradomus and his quatrain that predicted the 27 year war that began in the Moslem world and consumed most of the world before it ended when the two giants that touch at the Polar caps joined forces to bring the war to an end.
on Feb 06, 2006
I think back how WWI was triggered by the death of one person in the midst of an explosive environment. WE may be looking at another conflict that is triggered by such an event.
--Col Gene

9/11 killed 3,000 of them in one fell swoop. Isn't that enough justification for you?


I think it is pure fantasy to believe we will achieve peace in the Moslem world by just spreading democracy.
---Col Gene

You don't know that....no one does because it's never been tried. Oh, wait----yes it has.....it settled and matured Germany and Japan very well, thank you very much.
on Feb 06, 2006
They weren't Muslims, RW.
---LW

True, but that doesn't mean it couldn't work as well with them, given a chance.

Holy crap.....LW agrees with the Col. I think Jesus is comin' back tonight!
on Feb 06, 2006
Remember Nostradomus and his quatrain that predicted the 27 year war that began in the Moslem world and consumed most of the world before it ended when the two giants that touch at the Polar caps joined forces to bring the war to an end.


If we ever needed hard evidence of Gene's lunacy, he's given it to us right there. Preserve this blog, please.

Cheers,
Daiwa
on Feb 07, 2006
That... was a coherant and, well, thoughtful post from Col Gene. I'm, well, I'm speechless. No Bush, no Republican, just, well... talking, like a person.

Don't condemn the Col, there's a lot of people here, including me, that believe things just as offbeat.
on Feb 07, 2006
I thought the same thing... until that last bit. That's a little more than just "offbeat," if you ask me, Baker.

Cheers,
Daiwa
on Feb 07, 2006
The response is such that I have to deal with quite a few issues. I too am a civil libertarian and do not want to see sensorship imposed on writers. So when I c say that the cartoons were offensive I am only stating an obvious civilizational point that we must not dishonor the sacred symbols of other faiths because it is an invitation to violence on a scale that we cannot veen imagine. What grat principle of Freedom was served by the cartoons except providing a pretext for what Huntington once called "clash of civilzation". That is why I feel that the principle of Oliver Wendell Holmes is quite appropriate. Islam may be in a mood of sullen defiance today but let it not be forgotten that it was Islam that preserved the great Classical Heritege of the West and tranmitted to Europe via the Renaissance. It is a pity that the political squabbles of today are obcuring a great and vibrant civilization. Can any historian of medieval Europe match the vision and breath of ibn Khaldun.
on Feb 07, 2006
"So when I c say that the cartoons were offensive I am only stating an obvious civilizational point that we must not dishonor the sacred symbols of other faiths because it is an invitation to violence on a scale that we cannot veen imagine."


Two problems with that.

First, they were offensive to YOU. People have different ideas about what is offensive. I'm sure many powerful people find having their actions questioned to be offended. Don't you think it better if we tolerate offense in the name of shared freedom?

Second, to say that a statement is "an invitation to violence" is akin to saying wearing a short skirt invites rape. The blame for violence should only fall on the violent, period. When we start saying things like "They asked for it", then we create a circumstance wherein violence is expected, and excused.

I'm sure you wouldn't want to add your voice to the list of people who believe that violence is the inevitable response to offending Muslims. The problem is, that is just what you said. You think they shouldn't have printed the cartoons because it was an "invitation to violence." You, yourself seem to admit that people should expect violence from Muslims.

"hat is why I feel that the principle of Oliver Wendell Holmes is quite appropriate. "


I doubt Oliver Wendell Holmes would have ever, ever said that an insult is grounds for violence. You are likening this to shouting "Fire" in a crowded theater. The people storming through Christian neighborhoods aren't fleeing for their lives, they are seeking out violence, and that is a crime. The only one to blame for a crime is the criminal.

"Islam may be in a mood of sullen defiance today but let it not be forgotten that it was Islam that preserved the great Classical Heritege of the West and tranmitted to Europe via the Renaissance."


Frankly, and with all due respect, many people believe that Islam itself is to blame for the decline. As with any religion, it can be used to illuminate and raise people up, or it can be used to keep them ignorant and subserviant. Islam was hijacked by leaders in the Middle East to keep people ignorant and obedient.

Once people are controlled, they are weilded like swords, and ignorant leaders such as that of Syria and Saudi Arabia are using this issue to further bias their people against the west. People often hear about the Crusades as a great wrong. I see Islam in a phase not unlike that, where evil, powerhungry people are trying to pit themselves against the world. We shouldn't help them by excusing their tactics.

Saying that we should expect embassies to be burned because of a cartoon is little different than Osama bin Laden saying we should expect terrorist attacks because of our apathy regarding the Middle East. I know you don't mean that, nor do you intend to say that Muslims are to be expected to be violent.
on Feb 07, 2006
It is easy for Islam to demand an end to any bias against them, but are they willing to give up centuries old biases


YOU. People have different ideas about what is offensive. I'm sure many powerful people find having their actions questioned to be offended


Look at the hard-line Islamists elected in Iraq and Afghanistan, for instance, the nutcase currently heading Iran, or the Palestinian's election of Hamas.


It takes two hands to clap. And it is the more powerful that must take the first step. Now you can disagree but the fact is that problems have been created in the Middle East in order to assuage the conscience of Europeans who wetre responsible for the Halocaust. How can the ordinary Arab or Palestenian responsible for the Holocaust and hence the Palestinain issue must be settled and I believe that the Road Map is a good enough starting point.

The test of Freedom of Expression is not the freedom to offend the sacred symbols of other cultures but when such offences take place witin the cultural context of European culture itself. It is easy enough to caricature the symbols of Islam., offend Moslems and then claim that Freedom of the Press and the alike are involved as if a moraL Imperative is at staske.

If the USA can elect George Bush why deny Palestenians the right to elect Hamas.
on Feb 07, 2006
If the USA can elect George Bush why deny Palestenians the right to elect Hamas.


We didn't deny them the right to elect Hamas. They elected Hamas didn't they?

Now they can live with the consequences. Hamas is our enemy. They elected our enemy to lead them. Therefore, they are now our enemy as far as I'm concerned.

Imagine if Hitler came to the US during WW2 and was elected president. Americans KNOWING what he stood for and what he believed. That would make his enemies, our enemies wouldn't it?

Yup yup.

So now that Hamas is leading Palestine. Palestine is our enemy. Unless one is so naive as to think they will "turn over a new leaf" and become a decent group. FAT CHANCE.

Sorry, but those are called CONSEQUENCES.

Deal.
on Feb 07, 2006
but those are called CONSEQUENCES


Yes. That is the problem. The positions have hardened into habits and the West believes that it can cruush the Moslem world. Unfortunately, Arab nationalism is now replaced by a pan Islamic Jehadist mentality thaT BODES ILL FOR PEACE IN THE WORLD.
on Feb 07, 2006
BODES ILL FOR PEACE IN THE WORLD.


The Muslim faith bodes ill for peace in this world. IT is a religion of violence.

As it spreads and collects more converts, guess what? The world has more violence.

There will be no peace with or without war. At least during war we can FIGHT BACK and not be called names by the rest of the world for it.

I am not a war monger, nor do I want another world war.

At the same time, I don't want more terrorists attacks.

During war we can deal immediately with the threat, during "peace" we just get to be the target while we are bogged down with places like the UN, who cater to the people like the French, who LOVE to see us getting sucker punched.
on Feb 07, 2006
Remember Nostradomus and his quatrain that predicted the 27 year war that began in the Moslem world and consumed most of the world before it ended when the two giants that touch at the Polar caps joined forces to bring the war to an end.


Any credibility you had is now gone. Between your Michael Moore lies and Nostradomus predictions, you are a fraud.


f the USA can elect George Bush why deny Palestenians the right to elect Hamas.


Because Bush is not a terrorist leader, although many looney lefties believe this.


We had better look to how we would deal with a massive Moslem uprising world wide.


Col actually has a thought. The problem is col people, mostly liberals and europeans (like there's a difference) don't see islam as a threat. It's a protected religion in their minds. These are people that believe a Christian telling them abortion is wrong is some religious lunatic, but a islamist blowing up a school with children is just "misunderstood" in the world.

Spreading democracy in the Middle East is a great thing, but it will not instantly achieve peace. Only the total destruction or major reform of islam will do that. Don't be fooled by this cartoon bs. These cartoons were published months ago. This is just another excuse for muslims to go wild and do whatever they want while using the excuse of "we are offended".

So to correct you col, we do know what to do when the massive islamic uprising occurs. I have been saying for many months the islamic revolution is coming. The real question is col, what side will the liberals and europeans take?
on Feb 07, 2006

We had better look to how we would deal with a massive Moslem uprising world wide.


Can we call acts of terrorism and arson "attacks", please? I am sick and tired of this habit of referring to every evil deed comitted by self-declared Muslims with some positive-sounding word. An "uprising" is not quite the same as attacking random embassies and killing random people whom one has never had any contact with before.

Let's all agree that a Jordanian who kills Iraqis is a "terrorist", not an "insurgent"; that a Egyptian who kills Jewish children is a "terrorist" as well, and not a "freedom fighter" or "militant"; and that a group of people who burn down an embassy over a cartoon are a "bunch of loonies" (I believe is the technical term) or "criminals" and engaged in "arson", not in an "uprising".
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