Remember Nostradomus and his quatrain that predicted the 27 year war that began in the moslem world and consumed most of the world before it ended when the two giants that touch at the Polar caps joined forces to bring the war to an end.

"Boy", YOU just blew it BIG time? Nostradamus? (you can't even spell it right! or "muslim" either.) Is a PROVEN crock of ca-ca! See you around the asylum!

You see Col, how easy it was to express yourself without Bush Bashing? You made your point and actually had many agree with you, even me. You have to admit though that by adding Nostra to the reply killed you big time. But if we can ignore that point we can still believe there is still hope for you.

"You have to admit though that by adding Nostra to the reply killed you big time"

Only from the people who were looking for something to rag on him about anyway...

Bahu, if you are Muslim, it might do some good to explain why creating an image of The Prophet is so offensive in the first place to Muslims - let alone a disparaging supposed image of The Prophet.

It would help 'Westerners' gain some perspective on the issue.

Aside from enlightening westerners, it is important to realize this comic was released four months ago.

Four months?

And we're just now seeing a response?

Mullahs in the mid-east and extremists are using this as propaganda to support jihad. Let's not allow the puppetmasters to continue pulling the strings.

Any country that would deny the holocaust must have a reason for doing so. The #1 reason would be to destroy any empathy for the Jews that the fact and horror of that most evil time in Western history brings to the soul of man. It wasn't so long ago, and the Nazis brought Germany to near total destruction with their instituted hatred. The whole of civilized mankind learned a terrible lesson. Where was Iran? I believe they were there back then, so the question is re-worded, where have they gone. I saw this old Bergman documentary on how the Nazi propaganda masters utilized their media, schools, and false science to reduce Jews into a sub-human element in the minds of the the German population, young and old. Huge headline such as "Jewish teacher poisons German youth" were pushed constantly on the busy, hard-working Germans, and they would have to read 3 or 4 paragraphs down before they would find out the reporter was not talking about a literal 'poisoning', but that teacher was poisoning the 'minds' of the children, the article claimed. Little short-subject films inbetween the feature films were shown depicting white-frocked scientist demonstrating the different frontal skull structure of the Jew that caused their thinking and feeling abilties to be inferior to that of the Aryan peoples. The Nazi propagandist thought themselves very smart as they put that hell together for their peaceful, highly pro-German citizens, the Jews. Ask the Jews if it really happened. This stuff is all very much documented. It's old hat, or old turban if you will, Mr Iranian president. At any rate, ask the German people if it really happened. They might remember it...Have you ever heard of the 'History Channel'? They will tell you.

The Muslim faith bodes ill for peace in this world. IT is a religion of violence.

Your statement is just off the mark. Can you judge Christianity on the basis of the history of those who have professed the faith. Just think the Holocaust was perpetrated by Germens who were church going Christians. The slavery and slave trade between Africa and the New World was carried out by Christians. You can name any crime and tyoyu can give a religious color. Muslims do not have any monopoly on bigotry and intolerance. The West has had more than its share of bigots and the like.

You are correct, Bahu, that Muslims do not have a historical monopoly on bigotry & intolerance, but they've certainly cornered the market of late. Furthermore, it was Christians & Jews, for the most part, who fought to end the tyranny perpetrated by those German Christians. And it was Christians & Jews, for the most part, who put an end to slavery.

The Muslim faith may not be a religion of violence, but it is certainly a religion which accepts and tolerates, and in countless instances openly advocates, violence against infidels. As soon as those peace-loving Muslims rise up and put an end to the terrorism being carried out in Allah's name, I'll accept your comparison as valid. It is sad that there are apologists like you who excuse terrorism as somehow justified.

Cheers,
Daiwa

There is a strong feeling in the Islamic world that the West is trying to undermine Islam as a religion and civilization by constantly depicing it as a fundamenmtalist, aggressive, lawless force.

That is ironic, consdering that there is a strong feeling in the western world that many Muslims are trying to undermine Islam as a religion and civilisation by constantly behaving as if it was a fundamentalist, aggressive, and lawless force.

Who do you think is more successful in the attempt to create that illusion?

Cartoonists or suicide bombers?

Touche, Leauki.

Cheers,
Daiwa

The slavery and slave trade between Africa and the New World was carried out by Christians.

Only partly true, bahu. The fact is, many of the Africans were captured and SOLD into slavery, and Christianity was not well established in Africa. Many of the traders who sold the blacks into slavery were (drumroll please): MUSLIMS!

Going further, though...I find it interesting that you compare Christianity of 100 years ago with Islam today (the holocaust doesn't count...to say it was perpetrated by Christians is to be WHOLLY misinformed...a good history lesson would do you some good here).

Yes, Christianity has had some "bad apples". And some have been VERY bad. But Christianity has built hospitals, schools, and numerous charities; in fact, public education in the United States was FOUNDED on Christian principles and philosophies (the "Old Deluder Satan Act" in Massachussetts was the first ever public education law).

You could point to practitioners of ANY religion and claim them to be extremists. NONE have NEAR the number of terrorists as Islam. Not ONE.

Only partly true, bahu. The fact is, many of the Africans were captured and SOLD into slavery, and Christianity was not well established in Africa. Many of the traders who sold the blacks into slavery were (drumroll please): MUSLIMS!

Muslims continued with the slave trade while the (Christian) British Empire was working to end slavery worldwide. It was Christians, it was Europeans who ended slavery.

Going further, though...I find it interesting that you compare Christianity of 100 years ago with Islam today (the holocaust doesn't count...to say it was perpetrated by Christians is to be WHOLLY misinformed...a good history lesson would do you some good here).

The Christianity of 100 years ago was still more civilised than much of Islam today. The Christianity of the Victorian age accepted Jews, accepted Darwin, but didn't tolerate slavery. I have no problem with such a religion.

And to blame the holocaust on Christians is simply an insult to the many members of the Lutheran Confessing Church who ended up in concentration camps because of their Christian faith.

http:/ /en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessing_Church

The famous pastor Niemoeller was one of their number. I have the greatest respect for him and his religion.




(JU always messes up links with underscores. Remove the space between // to make the link usable.)

Thank you, Leauki. I always find it interesting when people will dredge up Christians who supported slavery, ignoring the fact that the Underground Railroad was run mostly by Quakers, many of whom lost their property in helping the blacks escape (another in the long arguments AGAINST reparations...I contend that, if blacks are worthy of reparations so am I, as I have equally worthy Quaker ancestors who lost as much...but I digress). Truth is, they're trained to anti-Christian "sound bites" without educating themselves to the facts.

Now, to be fair, SOME Christians do the same to Muslims. But some of us have done the facts and crunched the numbers, attempting to be objective...and even with an objective analysis, Islam comes up short.

I meant to put the word Christians (in "German Christians") in quotes but forgot. And it does boggle the mind that anyone, Bahu included, could believe that Christians perpetrated the Holocaust (that is, when they're not believing that it never happened) - the Nazis were entirely pagan, rejecting both the God of the Jews and Christ.

Cheers,
Daiwa

The Germans who perpetrated the holocaust were not church going Christians in any sense of the word. They were pagans for the most part, in the process of inventing their own teutonic religion. Feel free to read up on the SS. As for slavery, some Christians were responsible for slavery, but without Christians, slavery would also have never been abolished.

Bahu, again, we are told that we should not provoke violence by posting these cartoons. Is the act of insulting Islam promoting violence? Doesn't that assume that Islam will always react violently?

Bahu states:

The cartoon showed the Prophet wearing a bomb in his turban.

Out of respect, it's not right to mock any religious idol regardless of motive. Moreover, no religious idol has ever been responsible for blood letting or war. Only in recent years has the Muslim religion stepped into the public eye bringing underlying motive out into question. As for bombs and turbans, thank the events of 9/11 and the Muslim terrorist signature bomb delivery being self sacrifice in the name of “Islam” at any cost. Yep, bombing has become associated with turbans in a slurred sense.

The Western embedded media says that it is a clash between Freedom of Expression and an increasingly intolerant Islam.

Don’t often agree with “The Western media’, but in this case they’re not to far off point. The problem is with Freedom of Expression, comes social responsibility and that’s to often ignored when it comes to controversial beliefs.

the West believes that it can cruush the Moslem world

This statement is so off the mark, it scratches distortion. We will do all we can to stop terrorism, not Muslims. Just so happens that you can thank Muslims with distortions and extremist views for advancing the association of terrorism with Muslims, even though there are some Catholics in Ireland that fit the bill. I've see roughly two extremes. Don’t know about any of you, but I’ve read segments of the translated version of the Quran, it's not much different then the bible when level headed intent interprets the words. God can be referred to many names, not one fosters killing. Radicals struggle with intent or difference because they’re founded in dysfunction and guided by poor judgment, which takes them to killing what appears threatening to Islam. They’re not all that different from some Christian leaders back in history either. There appears to be a consensus that maligning all Moslems and intrusive attacks directed at their religious idols is acceptable; if so, that’s wrong. Additionally, it gives food to the distorted person while harming the innocent Moslems, which there are many. In their defense, many moderate Muslims and Clerics have held press releases speaking to the contrary regarding terrorism, but not nearly enough for the world to stand up and take notice. In addition, when highly respected Muslim leaders do speak up, very little press results. With that in mind, I’m in-step with Tova7 For respect to come about, the whole Moslem world needs to take a firm public stance against arbitrary killing and rampant misrepresentation of the Koran. Otherwise, it gives the appearance the majority of Muslims subtly support those publicly announcing extreme beliefs and the manner in which they act out their hate. Once that takes a larger hold, more respect towards Muslim beliefs will be shown by those with marginal tolerance levels. Course; there are extremists on our side of the problem that might never let go.