This blog explores the contemporary political and cultural trends from a distinct perspective
WHAT THE WEST CAN DO
Published on February 6, 2006 By Bahu Virupaksha In Politics
A few weeks back a Danish newspaper published a picture of Prophet Momammad, peace be on his name. The cartoon showed the Prophet wearing a bomb in his turban. The Moslem world was just aghast at this irreverential portrayal of the Prophet. Since then the fires have been raging in Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Pakistan and Afghanistan. The Western embedded media says that it is a clash between Freedom of Expression and an increasingly intolerant Islam. This view is wrong because there are laws in all Western countries against Blasphemy and Racism. No one can claim the right to publish a cartton dishonoring Jesus Christ and claim that freedom of rxpression protects him/her. Therefore the principle of Freedom of the Press or ERxpression is not involved. The Wesrern Media is claiming unto itself the Right to dishonor Islam in the name of Democratic Freedoms. As Oliverm Wendell Holmes once said. you cannot shout fire in a crowded theatre and then claim that the act and its consequenes are covered by the First Ammendment. The present case is similar.

There is a strong feeling in the Islamic world that the West is trying to undermine Islam as a religion and civilization by constantly depicing it as a fundamenmtalist, aggressive, lawless force. The anger that is spilling on to the streets is a spontaneous expression of the frustrations that people feel when their sacred symbols are cynically violated.

Comments (Page 6)
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on Feb 10, 2006
Now you have a feel of how Moslems feel when their symbols are ctitisised. Your response is truly amazing. This is exactly the response in Gaza, West Bank, Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Sudan. Except that you are angry over one symbol the others over another.


You need to get a clue! "Americans" are not angry over a symbol! They are angry over the "act" that took the lives of 3000 Americans. Refering to the cartoon now...how many muslims lost their lives over it?
on Feb 10, 2006
Gene -

Go get some help. Soon.

Bahu -

I'm rather surprised that Baker is being so kind. I would have expected your nonchalance about the murder of innocents, in fact your dismissal of those murders as less serious than that cartoon, to have torked him off, too. And no, I don't have the feeling Moslems have when their symbols are criticized - our symbols weren't criticized, Bahu, our citizens were murdered. That you can't see the difference speaks volumes.

Daiwa
on Feb 10, 2006

 

Edited by moderator:

This is an interesting discussion, Col Gene. Take your off-topic Bush bashing elsewhere or I will make you disappear.

on Feb 10, 2006
Gene -

Go bury your nose in a quatrain & leave us alone. Please.

Cheers,
Daiwa
on Feb 10, 2006
Daiwa

NO WHERE DID I dismiss the terrorism that is taking place. The issue is that we are not looking how extensive and how deep the hatred of the west is among the Moslems thought the world. We make believe by trying to set up a democracy in Iraq all will be fine as that spreads thought the area. THAT IS PURE BS. There is NO justification for ANY of the violence that resulted from the cartoons. There is no justification for any of the violence coming from these radicals. However, there is far more support for their actions than Bush and this administration admits. The situation world wide is NOT making us safer. What I said is we better get prepared for the possibility that this carnage will become even more wide spread. One GREAT way to do that is to CUT the size of our military (Guard and Reserve) the way the Bush 2007 budget proposes!




Bush is getting ready to send his 2007 budget proposal to Congress. While Bush is pushing to make his tax cuts for his wealthy supporter's permanent, look at some of the proposed CUTS he has included in his 2007 Budget:

Cuts from Education
Cuts from the Dept of Energy
Cuts from the National Institute of Health
Cuts from Centers for Disease Control
Cuts for Medicare Reimbursement
Cuts for food aid to CHILDREN under 6 and the ELDERLY
Cuts for the NATIONAL GUARD and ARMY RESERVE

Given his statements about the need for education, the potential problems with health and a possible pandemic, the plight of the poor he identified in his New Orleans Speech and the situation with our military being under sized, these budget cuts are as wrong as they could be. Rather then increase the Federal revenues to help balance the budget, Bush is proposing cuts in ESSENTIAL elements of the government. The cuts in the National Guard and Reserve have raised a firestorm with the nations Governors as well as the Congress. 75 Senators sent a letter to Bush Thursday saying HELL NO. I doubt that most of these ridicules cuts will be approved, especially in an election year. The real question is HOW COULD WE HAVE ELECTED A PRESIDENT THAT IS SO OUT OF TOUCH WITH WHAT IS NEEDED IN AMERICA?


Col, will you PLEASE, get a god-damned clue? The topic at hand is muslim violence, NOT "bash-Bush"!
on Feb 10, 2006
I've seen many references to "Respect" in this thread from Bahu mainly revolving around the Wests need to respect the feelings and beliefs of the muslim world. All I have to add to this discussion is simply:

Respect is earned not demanded!!

You want the world to respect you, show some respect for the beliefs and opinions of the rest of the world. Oh, and brning down buildings, threatening innocent people and shouting "death to " at the top of your lungs is not a convincing show of respect.
on Feb 10, 2006
Daiwa

I know where you have your head burried
on Feb 10, 2006
Gene -

Cite me the quatrain, otherwise you know nothing.

Cheers,
Daiwa
on Feb 10, 2006
#84 is a copy of the Quatrain about the war
on Feb 10, 2006
Kevin, good point.

Excellent point, actually.
on Feb 10, 2006
Now you have a feel of how Moslems feel when their symbols are ctitisised
--bahu

As you put it "OUR FREEDOMS" cannot be changed. True enough, but what about respect for the values symbols and religion of nearly a third of humankind
---Bahu

What about Christians in Africa, murdered by Muslims? Are we supposed to just say "Oh, well?"
What about cartoons printed in Arab papers that feature Jesus Christ unfavorably? "Oh, well?" I'm offended by those things, but you don't see me beheading innocent people, do you?

As to this comment:

One is a religious symbol and revered all over the world. The other is a political and economic symbol. In any case they are not to be equated.
---Bahu

That revered figure, or at least the following of his teachings, is responsible for more hatred and unnecessary death
and destruction than almost any other figure in all of history. How can you defend that?

Screw them all, and the camels they rode in on. Where's the Button, George?
on Feb 12, 2006
Screw them all, and the camels they rode in on. Where's the Button, George


This last comment just shows how ill informed many are about the present controversey. Jesus is recognised as a Propher along with Abraham and Moses. No Moslem will dishonor Jesus (whether he was Christ) is open to dispute. There are some offensive cartoons about Israel, I agree, but they are not manifestations of anti semiticism because Arabs are also Semites. We may just as well say that the 2000 years of anti semitism in the West which culminated in the Holocaust has just tranformed itself into Moslem baiting and this too is anti semetic.
on Feb 12, 2006
There are some offensive cartoons about Israel, I agree, but they are not manifestations of anti semiticism because Arabs are also Semites. We may just as well say that the 2000 years of anti semitism in the West which culminated in the Holocaust has just tranformed itself into Moslem baiting and this too is anti semetic.


True, Arabs are Semites as far as I'm aware, but in the west anti-semitic tends to mean anti-Jew rather than being a race-based position. The two often go hand-in-hand but I think you can't disagree that Jews get a bad rap in many Arabic countries.
on Feb 12, 2006
The two often go hand-in-hand but I think you can't disagree that Jews get a bad rap in many Arabic countries.


The reasons as we have always maintained have to do with the Palestenian and West Bank problems. It has nothing to do with a fundamental hatred for Jews such as the one that informed anti semitism in Europe.
on Feb 12, 2006
"The reasons as we have always maintained have to do with the Palestenian and West Bank problems. It has nothing to do with a fundamental hatred for Jews such as the one that informed anti semitism in Europe."


Pardon? Then why would I be considered a Dhimmi to many Muslims were I to live alongside them in their nation? I think you'll find that there was a great deal of anti-Semitism before Israel came into existence in the 1940's.

According to Ibn Kathir (b. Syria, 1301):

"Ibn Kathir wrote that dhimmis must feel “disgraced, humiliated and belittled. Therefore, Muslims are not allowed to honor the people of the dhimmah or elevate them above Muslims, for they are miserable, disgraced and humiliated."


Even if you attribute the hatred for Jews and the alignment with the Nazis by people like the Grand Mufti to fear of Jewish efforts to form Israel, I think you can't possibly claim that the status of the Jew as less than that of a Muslim is due to the formation of modern Israel. It has been around since the Koran itself was written:

"O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Whoso of you makes them his friends is one of them..." (V: The Tables: 55)"


Bahu, I appreciate your defense, and it is admirable, but you can't stifle the truth with the better nature of Islam. I have no doubt there have always been tolerant, peaceful Muslims who lived with kindness for people of other faiths. I also have no doubt, though, that the hatred for the Jew that is now present in Islam can be traced back to Islam's earliest beginnings, and long before the 1940's.

Christians and Jews were also not the only ones mistreated by Islam. Treated as badly were people of the Hindu faith, which didn't get any consideration as "people of the book".
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